Siobhan.
Posts: 16/59 |
Originally posted by Evo
Originally posted by Vulkar
First should be God, then comes other people(assuming that they aren't threatening your life, belongings, or property), and finally there comes you. I believe that sacrificing your life to save another's, is well worth the trouble. quote]
So... You notice a crack addict hooker who's murderd people in her life is about to get shot, you dive, take the bullet, and die. You go to heaven or whereever you go when you die. Your family, friend, and children, in my case, mourn you. Your child, without a mother/father, grows up confused, becomes a sociopath. S/he finds comfort and calm in torturing people/things/doing things that aren't "ok."
The hooker.... returns to her hooking life. Turns out she looted your dead body and took the $20 in your pocket to buy more crack. She never makes anything of herself, and the only way she "helped" people is to relieve their sexual frustration. She dies and still goes to "hell"
This is, of course, the most extreme example. But in certain situations, it is always best to put oneself first. That is the first thing I learned while takin First Aid/CPR. If you are going to be the one doing the saving, put YOURSELF first, because if something happens to you, both you AND the victim are screwed.
Satanism does have its plusses. as to other religions. But it will also have its downs. *shrugs* Just another one to toss onto my pile of discarded religions. 
(Elara - yes. This is why Wiccan's scare me.  Most of them that I have met, actually physically met, have been men-bashing femnazis, as you call them. O.o SCAAARRRYYY!!!)
See, I like what you said, because that's what Satanism is about; you help others and possibly put them before you if they DESERVE it. You're not going to put yourself behind them if they are an undeserving mess. :/ And I know a lot about Wicca, and when I would study it on my own I found it fascinating, but then when I tried to enter into the Wiccan community I found that they were very critical and had a very defined hierarchy--and weren't fond of teens who just "read up on it". I mean, sure, they can feel that way, whatever, but it really turned me off because I was under the impression wicca was about equality and breaking that hierarchy when I read many books about it.
and again, Satanism isn't a religion, but a philosophy haha. You can be a Satanist combined with any other belief.  That's why many Satanists are Atheists as well.
Evo
Posts: 750/871 |
Originally posted by Vulkar
First should be God, then comes other people(assuming that they aren't threatening your life, belongings, or property), and finally there comes you. I believe that sacrificing your life to save another's, is well worth the trouble. quote]
So... You notice a crack addict hooker who's murderd people in her life is about to get shot, you dive, take the bullet, and die. You go to heaven or whereever you go when you die. Your family, friend, and children, in my case, mourn you. Your child, without a mother/father, grows up confused, becomes a sociopath. S/he finds comfort and calm in torturing people/things/doing things that aren't "ok."
The hooker.... returns to her hooking life. Turns out she looted your dead body and took the $20 in your pocket to buy more crack. She never makes anything of herself, and the only way she "helped" people is to relieve their sexual frustration. She dies and still goes to "hell"
This is, of course, the most extreme example. But in certain situations, it is always best to put oneself first. That is the first thing I learned while takin First Aid/CPR. If you are going to be the one doing the saving, put YOURSELF first, because if something happens to you, both you AND the victim are screwed.
Satanism does have its plusses. as to other religions. But it will also have its downs. *shrugs* Just another one to toss onto my pile of discarded religions.
(Elara - yes. This is why Wiccan's scare me. Most of them that I have met, actually physically met, have been men-bashing femnazis, as you call them. O.o SCAAARRRYYY!!!)
Elara
Posts: 4192/9736 |
The crazy Satanists usually aren't even Satanists, just little wannabes that think "evil" is cool and that to be a Satanist you must sacrifice cats or fuck the dead or something. Yes, I've met people like that... it's very sad.
But yeah, last year the Pagan club that I was in had a panel discussion on religion that included a Christian minister, a Native American spiritualist, and (at the last moment) a card carrying member of the Church of Satan. We'd been looking for one for two years, finding either crazies or people not willing to talk; and this guy just walked up to us 10 minutes before the panel began. Very nice guy. |
Lord Vulkas Mormonus
Posts: 1803/4541 |
Certainly, all humans prioritize themselves, at one point or anothr, Cairoi, but that doesn't mean that it's right. Morality should not be defined by what ohers think of you, it should not be comparitive, it simply should be.
Anyway, as far as the rules of Satanism that Cawn pointed out, my religion is of course setting themselves against all of those except for the ones in the last bit. See, I believe that you should be the third on your list of priorities. First should be God, then comes other people(assuming that they aren't threatening your life, belongings, or property), and finally there comes you. I believe that sacrificing your life to save another's, is well worth the trouble. Satanism would say that you take priority.
Also, life is to be enjoyed, and lived, with no time for religion or other people? That sounds like eat drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die. I couldn't live without having control over myself, or helping other people.
Sorry if I offended anyone here, I didn't intend to be overly blunt through my critisizing. |
Cairoi
Posts: 1912/3807 |
Nagis, while I know that not all Christians are the crusading type, I think that you should not call Satanism a cult as it has no hierarchy.
"In religion and sociology, a cult is a term designating a cohesive group of people (sometimes a relatively small and recently founded religious movement, sometimes numbering in the hundreds of thousands) devoted to beliefs or practices that the surrounding culture or society considers to be far outside the mainstream, sometimes reaching the point of a taboo."
Satanists are not taboo at all, prioritizing oneself is something that all humans do at one point or another. Why do you think billionaires are idolized? The only thing that makes it so at all "cultish" is the name. And that is nothing but shock factor, essentially. The philosophy shouldn't really have such a negative connonation in my opinion, because my girlfriend is one and she is the kindest, sweetest person I've ever met in my life. She's gone far out of her way to lavish me with gifts that were great and expensive, but she still follows these beliefs.
Maybe there are some crazy Satanists out there, but there are extremists of EVERY religion, and they should not be judged as the representative of the mainstream.
Don't judge, lest ye be judged. Satanism is one choice for beliefs, and so is Christianity and Wicca. I don't know what I am, but I will defend anyone's beliefs, and no one has the right to tell them they are immoral or wrong. Or else. XD |
Elara
Posts: 4186/9736 |
Don't feel bad Evo, some Wiccans scare me too... most of the femnazis actually seem to pop up in Wicca more than any other religion. |
Bitmap
Posts: 3790/7838 |
Originally posted by Cairoi
Almost every religion mocks others, Vulkar. Christians go on holy crusades...
Standing as a Christian, I must have to point something out here.
I agree, we Christians can be retarded at times. We Judge, poke our noses into something we shouldent, and even turn away our heads on religions that oppose or work against God.
But then there are others, like me, who sit back and let Nature take its course. I'm not one to say anything about your life. But it says in the bible that God isn't responsible for the people in this world (Coming from a Christian, thats how I think.).
But about converting others, its our job, and we are told to do so. But it also says in the Bible to respect one's home and value. I take that Value as ones moral in life...Or his or her purpose.
Moral of this post. Not ALL Christians go on Holy Crusades. Its just some people see Christianity different than others. I respect all aspects of everyone's outlook on life and meaning.
Now about the thread topic-
I dont believe in Satanism. From what I have read, its mostly about Personal Gain, Revenge, and self-Moral.
and I too believe that Satanism is just a researched "Cult" so to speak. According to LaVey's book. "The Satanic Bible", there were many key elements I never found plausable. Like the Bible being a soft Porn?
Not to mention a Verse in there saying from Lucifer's book. "I am my own God". Not to mention "The result, of course, is to view oneself as the most important of all beings, and to adopt an unapologetically self-centered view of the world and course of action."...
Dosent that kinda contradict itself in a way? |
Evo
Posts: 746/871 |
Hmm, no, I wasn't trying to hurt anyone. like I stated in my first post, I have a very objectified view of all religions.
Also, I did catch that you stated Satanism is the most empowering religion... what caught me was the line right after that, specifically marketed toward women. I think that going on about this here is pointless, and perhaps I should create a separate debate on this... when I'm un-lazy.
I am interested in all religions, however not to follow them. Hence the first post I put here.. wasn't very self-explanitory, but it was pretty much a "tell me more" sort of thing.
I'm sorry you got your feelings hurt, but if we're talking about any type of religion, it should be expected. Except for Wiccan. I won't go there. They scare me. (sorry Elara!)
|
Siobhan.
Posts: 9/59 |
Originally posted by Evo
Originally posted by cawn Q byne
It's very empowering to women if you want it to be!
Great, jsut what america needs... more women on a fucking power trip.
I'm female, but I think women have gone overboard. They want equality, but instead, they make it so they get better EVERYTHING...
As far as Satanism...
Originally posted by Clockworkz
t's more or less just a selfish religion, putting yourself before anyone else.
Hmm... I knew it! my mom wasn't wiccan, she was Satanist!!
I think my mother is the reason I don't care for religion. Agnostic, here. Not so much Athiest.
I couldn't stand being satanist.. I'm a VERY un-selfish person. I hate recieving ANYTHING... and putting myself before others. O.O I think I'd go insane with guilt.
It's not all about being selfish, lol...
And I agree with you that there are feminazis, but just as many guys are still jackasses. People don't understand how to create equality. We think it's made by compensating for in the past when we've been hurt, when really we should just get over it and be thankful for the rights we have now. The same thing goes with race.
I find what you said kind of offensive, because I don't think you understood what I was trying to say. It's an empowering religion to ANYONE, it's a religion that builds self confidence, which, despite what our twisted world may think today, is a HEALTHY thing to have. Too many people are unhappy with theirselves for stupid reasons that consumers and peers drill into their heads, anyway, both men AND women. I was trying to say that it can help you accept yourself instead of always being critical of everything you do, and that's how it's empowering....not that it's like, girls rule, boys drool.
Also, people are jumping to crazy conclusions about the degree of "selfishness" in Satanism. I am a Satanist and that doesn't mean I don't love to give gifts to people, or that I wouldn't take a bullet for my mother or my best friends.
I surround myself with people that make me happy instead of friends that hurt me.
"IV. Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it, instead of love wasted on ingrates!" (Nine Satanic Statements)
If someone hurts me, I'll do what's best for me, whether that be punishing them by taking action and doing something to them or punishing them by pushing them out of my life.
"V. Satan represents vengeance, instead of turning the other cheek!" (Nine Satanic Statements)
I believe that the purpose of life is to enjoy it, rather than to spend it groveling or begging or having faith that a god that may or may not be there has control over my life.
"I. Satan represents indulgence, instead of abstinence!"
"II. Satan represents vital existence, instead of spiritual pipe dreams!" (Nine Satanic Statements)
I believe that natural things that humans feel and do aren't dirty or sinful, but beautiful.
"VIII. Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification!" (Nine Satanic Statements)
I believe that within myself, and the power of thought, I can create magic, I can make anything I want happen.
"VII. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have used it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained." (Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth)
Satanism does not condone murder, theft, or rape, like I said.
"V. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal."
"VI. Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the person and he cries out to be relieved."
"IX. Do not harm little children."
"X. Do not kill non-human animals unless attacked or for your food." (in drastic situations).
(Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth)
Now, let's take a look at an important Satanic Sin, where we can see that Satanism ISN'T all selfish lol...
BTW, the difference between these sins and the sins of say, Christianity, are that these sins are things that can be avoided with a teensy bit of work, while a lot of Christian sins are extremely difficult or impossible for a human to not commit.
"Counterproductive Pride
That first word is important. Pride is great up to the point you begin to throw out the baby with the bathwater. The rule of Satanism is: if it works for you, great. When it stops working for you, when you've painted yourself into a corner and the only way out is to say, "I'm sorry, I made a mistake, I wish we could compromise somehow," then do it."
If you want to learn more you can read the Satanic Bible or visit satanism101.com
It really sucks that you guys all consider it such a negative philosophy, because it's very interesting, and it's not something you have to follow down to the bone or that has to change your religion at all. You can remain whatever religion you are and be a Satanist. Satanism is a guideline that if you don't want to, you don't have to follow all of, though most of the statements and ideas you are PROBABLY ALREADY following in every day life anyway.
So please, no more ignorance, guys. It's totally hurting my feelings. 
|
Evo
Posts: 744/871 |
Originally posted by cawn Q byne
It's very empowering to women if you want it to be!
Great, jsut what america needs... more women on a fucking power trip.
I'm female, but I think women have gone overboard. They want equality, but instead, they make it so they get better EVERYTHING...
As far as Satanism...
Originally posted by Clockworkz
t's more or less just a selfish religion, putting yourself before anyone else.
Hmm... I knew it! my mom wasn't wiccan, she was Satanist!!
I think my mother is the reason I don't care for religion. Agnostic, here. Not so much Athiest.
I couldn't stand being satanist.. I'm a VERY un-selfish person. I hate recieving ANYTHING... and putting myself before others. O.O I think I'd go insane with guilt. |
Siobhan.
Posts: 6/59 |
Satanism isn't a religion, it's a philosophy. It leaves the unknown open to interpretation. Many Satanists are atheist, where at the same time it's possible to be a Satanist Christian. I've been a Satanist for a while now. I practice magic as well, but my beliefs are different than Wiccan or Pagan. I've studied a lot about religion and philosophy and developed my own beliefs. It's nice.
But yeah, Satanism is about indulging, worshipping your SELF as the most important thing in your life. It goes back to instinct, and personally, I think it's a great way to be. Why feel guilty about something that's a natural part of you?
And, may I add, it's really not that Satanists don't care for others and are completely selfish. There are Satanic rules which are completely sensible guidelines for the most part to live by, such as remembering the fact that children are innocent and should never be harmed, and that we have to remember that humans are animals, too, and can often be the most dangerous. There's not much evil about it. It doesn't condone rape or abuse; the fifth rule is that "you shall not make sexual advances unless given the mating signal".
Satanism I think is the most empowering philosophy. It's very empowering to women if you want it to be! La Vey wrote a book about the Satanic Witch and how she can use her sexuality and female power to create and manifest magic. I'm a very sexually open person and I'm all for empowering women. I read the tarot and pray to "goddess" to help my tuition with every reading. I believe there is a higher force, but I won't elaborate on my beliefs except for saying I don't see it as simply a male or a female. Living the satanic lifestyle is an accepting and peaceful way to live, regardless of what many think.
And it's true, the name Satanism is for pure shock factor. Satan is the best friend the Church has ever had. I see Christianity as having many cult-like factors, like gaining believers out of fear (of Satan and sin). It encourages us to think of human things as dirty things, and is often sexist towards women. There are laws against healthy parts of our lives such as masturbation and menstruation, saying that they are filthy and sinful. It's retarded, imo. |
Cairoi
Posts: 1901/3807 |
Clockworkz was right about Satanism, it is basically a proclamation that desires are natural and should not be considered immoral. There is NO sacrificing or anything like that, that's a very popular and very wrong conception.
Almost every religion mocks others, Vulkar. Christians go on holy crusades, Islams have jihads...Religion is such a heated source of argument, its insane.
|
| This is a long thread. Click here to view it. | | |
