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Spoiler:
Cloud was a nobody, he became a somebody by force of will. People think that Cloud's evasion of personal questions early in the game was simply poor writing, it was an expert amount of foreshadowing that many games cannot accomplish. He was nothing, a lowly soldier in some padded armor, carrying a gun. He was injected with 'Mako' when he became a lowly foot soldier, though this is not entirely true. It is elaborated later that he was injected with some cells of Jenova, Hujo's attempt at continuing to make a perfect soldier, to make another Sephiroth.

Sephiroth was a somebody who became a nobody, a person who was as famous as a warrior could get for his time. But what happens? He becomes obsessed with being created, his life not being his own, so to speak, that his mental functions break down, almost as though he was being controlled by the very 'mother' from whom he was created.

Cloud plays a backseat in the storyline as he is a nobody at this point, chronologically that is, and the true emphasis on the early timeline is what Zack did. Though Zack met his end at the hands of Sephiroth, who at this point and time had gone insane to so speak. But I like to believe he was being controlled by the incomprehensibly powerful Jenova, who was able to control Sephiroth because he had her genetic code within, since he was essentially built from her genetic material. Sephiroth kills Zack(who also has Jenova's genetic material within, but to a lesser extent) and almost kills Tifa, he tries to escape, being met by Cloud. Cloud(who has genetic material of Jenova within him, get the jump on Sephiroth, who stabs Cloud through the stomach, Cloud in his pain(and possibly as a side-effect of being near Jenova) musters an incredible amount of strength to throw Sephiroth off of the small platform they are on, killing him. Cloud manages to survive and carry Tifa to safety(probably as a side-effect of being near Jenova).

Now this is where the story is a tad convoluted and simply more compelling. Jenova's head was in a ditch with Sephiroth's body. She used this to her advantage, essentially powering herself and taking the form of Sephiroth(possibly because he was in close proximity, or because Jenova knew that Sephiroth would be a form she could use to exalt a terrifying revenge cake against the Shin-Ra organization. Who kept Jenova captive for many years.

Now, Jenova(as Sephiroth) did what she needed to do, bringing about destruction to her former captives, killing all who got in her way, and eventually retreating to the site where she crashed. (The Northern Crater, Jenova was an alien from another world that crashed into the planet, forming the Northern Crater) Here, Jenova attempted to summon a Meteor, the likes of which caused the Northern Crater before, to strike the planet in the same spot, hoping to draw more of the planet's life-force for which she could feast.

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Xeoman Posts: 8512/11757	The GF system in FF8 was pretty cool, but yeah I don't care for Junctioning. It basically renders actually using Magic absolutely pointless. I mean sure you could use some magic here or there, or you can use Firaga or some Cure magic to boost your HP several thousands, boost your str/mag to cause 5-10x more damage... uh, yeah. But I have to counter the grinding statement, if anything you might want to "grind" a bit in FF8 for stocking up on magic, but in this one since the monsters level up with you and gain new magic, I'm pretty sure the first time I played the game and maxed out my characters early on just made the game pointlessly far more challenging in a sense. I got about halfway in this new run and barely did any of that this time around though and the game felt far more easier. So it's odd, it basically seems like the less work you do the more you're rewarded, in a way. All in all I think all the FF's are by far some of the easiest JRPG's out there anyways... I still don't get how the Chronicles version of FF4 was apparently the Hard Type version.
Xeios Posts: 2752/2954	Hm. I never seemed to have that problem, I finished the game at ~level 52 my first playthrough without any issues. Perhaps it was unintentional grinding from doing fun things like Fighting Ultima weapon, or it could be that I try and find every treasure within an area, leading to a natural increase of XP. Though, on second thought, I mostly meant no grind for the ultimate stuff. I mean, I never had the "Knights of the Round" or "Mimic" materias, and surely they'd have helped.
Lord Vulkas Mormonus Posts: 3566/4541	Originally posted by Xeios if you did less, you certainly weren't penalized by an impossible boss. I don't know...I worked on basically just the main story until the crater, without any real grind, and I got murder by the first thing that spawned in there. You really do need to grind quite a bit to survive.
Xeios Posts: 2751/2954	Third result in a google search for "Who is Jenova?" http://faqs.ign.com/articles/706/706775p1.html It seems to have some very well thought out and interesting information, as well as a nice compilation. Anyways, yes, there is more than enough speculation on the end of FFVII as well. I agree with you, the combat in FFVII was fast paced(for a JRPG with turn-based combat), and there wasn't a need for a grind. You could very easily beat the game by simply playing what interested you, if you did more, you got more out of it, if you did less, you certainly weren't penalized by an impossible boss. From what I've heard/seen, 8 was all about the grind for 'more.' The materia system worked well in Seven, just like the GF system worked well in Eight. Behind the curtain the game was great, but what we saw was a bit lackluster.
Xeoman Posts: 8510/11757	Some seriously awesome stuff there, though the last two paragraph's sound like pure theory to me unless you can point me somewhere or something. I've heard some good arguments on both sides about Sephiroth being some kind of evil incarnate and controlling Jenova, or vice versa. But if you're essentially saying they practically become one (which could be brought up in some of these theories... on both ends?), that does sound interesting. Truth be told I stopped this run on FFVIII... I don't think it was because of the story this time around, but the gameplay to me really is ... fairly boring. It's way too damn easy and I'm too compulsive about stocking up on magic which sucks away a lot of pointless time. So what'd I do? Started up FFVII again recently, which I've completed 3-4 times and the game just pulls me in so much quicker, better atmosphere, the gameplay is much more fun, and overall the game to me just feels a lot more complete than FFVIII for the most part. I still have a lot of problems with FFVII though, it seems like the more times I go through it the less and less I care about the characters. But it's just such a damn fun game with great atmosphere and everything. The problems might just be that the localization could've been better perhaps. Pretty funny going back to old 90's text heavy games on the consoles and seeing odd grammar or awkward dialogue.
Xeios Posts: 2750/2954	I have to say on some levels I agree with Ryan. I think FF8 was cluttered and nonsensical, although a fantastic game with a compelling storyline, until disc 2 that is. Personally, I like to believe this theory, and maybe with this theory in mind, I'll be able to complete this game. I stopped playing FF8 after the story went batshit insane. Seriously, once Irving said: "We all lived in this orphanage, I just didn't mention it because I thought you all were mad at me." I stopped, did a double take, a mighty facepalm, then ejected the disc from my system and started playing something that wasn't awful. Personally, I'm one of those 'FFVII was the best game ever!' people, yes, I loved the story of Seven, I loved the way it was executed, and I loved the ridiculous nature of the plot. It was a game that had a general sense of where it wanted to go. It was a reflection on the nature of self, and self-identity. Caution, here there be spoilers. Spoiler: Cloud was a nobody, he became a somebody by force of will. People think that Cloud's evasion of personal questions early in the game was simply poor writing, it was an expert amount of foreshadowing that many games cannot accomplish. He was nothing, a lowly soldier in some padded armor, carrying a gun. He was injected with 'Mako' when he became a lowly foot soldier, though this is not entirely true. It is elaborated later that he was injected with some cells of Jenova, Hujo's attempt at continuing to make a perfect soldier, to make another Sephiroth. Sephiroth was a somebody who became a nobody, a person who was as famous as a warrior could get for his time. But what happens? He becomes obsessed with being created, his life not being his own, so to speak, that his mental functions break down, almost as though he was being controlled by the very 'mother' from whom he was created. Cloud plays a backseat in the storyline as he is a nobody at this point, chronologically that is, and the true emphasis on the early timeline is what Zack did. Though Zack met his end at the hands of Sephiroth, who at this point and time had gone insane to so speak. But I like to believe he was being controlled by the incomprehensibly powerful Jenova, who was able to control Sephiroth because he had her genetic code within, since he was essentially built from her genetic material. Sephiroth kills Zack(who also has Jenova's genetic material within, but to a lesser extent) and almost kills Tifa, he tries to escape, being met by Cloud. Cloud(who has genetic material of Jenova within him, get the jump on Sephiroth, who stabs Cloud through the stomach, Cloud in his pain(and possibly as a side-effect of being near Jenova) musters an incredible amount of strength to throw Sephiroth off of the small platform they are on, killing him. Cloud manages to survive and carry Tifa to safety(probably as a side-effect of being near Jenova). Now this is where the story is a tad convoluted and simply more compelling. Jenova's head was in a ditch with Sephiroth's body. She used this to her advantage, essentially powering herself and taking the form of Sephiroth(possibly because he was in close proximity, or because Jenova knew that Sephiroth would be a form she could use to exalt a terrifying revenge cake against the Shin-Ra organization. Who kept Jenova captive for many years. Now, Jenova(as Sephiroth) did what she needed to do, bringing about destruction to her former captives, killing all who got in her way, and eventually retreating to the site where she crashed. (The Northern Crater, Jenova was an alien from another world that crashed into the planet, forming the Northern Crater) Here, Jenova attempted to summon a Meteor, the likes of which caused the Northern Crater before, to strike the planet in the same spot, hoping to draw more of the planet's life-force for which she could feast. So, yeah, I like FFVII, this thread makes me think that I should replay FFVIII, and I know entirely too much about FFVII. As I clearly delivered a base synopsis of the plot from the top of my head. >.<
True Flight Posts: 3963/5245	THis really helps make sense and make it seem like a better game. =P Plus it was the longest essay I have read, except for the one I had written on safety 5000 words. >< anyway this really does make me want to play FF8 again.
ĂĽÂ¤ÂŠĂĽâşÂ˝JOE Posts: 2677/2999	I wish I had my FFVIII still. I lent it to a friend and he moved away with it still in his possession. Sunuvaaaa I really liked what I did play, though.
Cairoi Posts: 3411/3807	Originally posted by Ryan I'm sure my opinion of this will be considered very controversial, but this just sounds silly to me. The FF8 plotline itself was cluttered, generic, and rather stupid. The game wasn't exactly great either. I'm almost certain the people of this website are doing what always happens with popular media, and that's finding meaning where none is intended. But whatever. Who cares? I mean, obviously the theory isn't an airtight explanation of FF8's storyline, but it still gives the chance to add a new layer (imagined or otherwise) to a game that a lot of us enjoy. I love the crazy theories people come up with because it's entertaining to think about. Literary critics have done insane analyses with novels (Gorram Marxists), and movie nerds have done the same for their obsessions.
Kard Ayals Posts: 2390/2915	Well, at least Ultimecia isn't as random as Necron.
Xeoman Posts: 8347/11757	Ryan... two posts for the year? Also, to each his own of course. I kind of feel that way concerning Ultimecia. It seems like often people try to really figure her out, who she is, etc, but lately I've just been kind of thinking ... hey, maybe she really is just this random godlike sorceress that kind of comes out of nowhere and takes the throne for being the final boss? The reason why I think myself and others could be over-analyzing this, is because it would definitely not be the first time some "random" being comes out of nowhere and appears as the final boss, especially in the FF's. Necron, Zeromus, etc etc. Maybe Ultimecia is just another one for the list.
Ryan Posts: 1714/1748	I'm sure my opinion of this will be considered very controversial, but this just sounds silly to me. The FF8 plotline itself was cluttered, generic, and rather stupid. The game wasn't exactly great either. I'm almost certain the people of this website are doing what always happens with popular media, and that's finding meaning where none is intended. But whatever.
Cteno Posts: 1118/3416	Danger: Ego inflating to hazardous levels!
Katana Posts: 2895/3649	That is because you are awesome, good sir. Hence bearing the name of Valhalla. nods
Cteno Posts: 1116/3416	Originally posted by Katana Yes....people didn't give 8 a chance. Those bastards!!! While I had my gripes with it, it was the only game I had ever renewed from Blockbuster for 3 weeks straight. I beat it twice in that time-frame.
Katana Posts: 2892/3649	Originally posted by Xeu Still can't stand the fact that new PS3's can't play PS2 games though. You can still even create PS2 memory cards... but what for? lol. ANYWAYS, yeah FFVIII. I totally agree with what you were saying about it earlier Kat, the game gets way too much slack and I'm not sure why it gets a lot of hate. It's just as solid as the others. Patch to D/L the compatibility to play PS2 games....for the newer systems. It's MUCH more improved than the so called "patch" for the older systems. I have the 20 gig, so my only gripe is that I can't go online wirelessly. But the hard drive in a PS3 is actually a standard laptop hard drive, so naturally, I have more than 20 gigs of memory in my PS3... That and it probably would have cost Sony more money to get rid of the ability to have that virtual memory card. I think all along, they intend to bring back compatibility, it's just Sony.... cough We should make a separate thread for that. Lmao. Cuz, there's kinda a lot that goes with it... Yes....people didn't give 8 a chance. Those bastards!!!
Xeoman Posts: 8332/11757	Yeah, the thing is I noticed more recently when I was randomly playing my very old files... when I used Knights of the Round in VII the game was lagging up real bad, lol. Wonder if it's just a compatibility issue with the PS3 or something... By the way as an old school gamer I gotta say the "virtual memory card" thing on the PS3 is so totally awesome! Haha, brings a smile to my face. I bought some third party memory card to USB adapter and got all my old saves backed up, dozens of old memory cards... lol. Still can't stand the fact that new PS3's can't play PS2 games though. You can still even create PS2 memory cards... but what for? lol. ANYWAYS, yeah FFVIII. I totally agree with what you were saying about it earlier Kat, the game gets way too much slack and I'm not sure why it gets a lot of hate. It's just as solid as the others.
Katana Posts: 2889/3649	I can do either way, analog or D-pad. I notice when I'm sleepy, but I'm trying to just run around, get into battles, and button mash 'x' 'til the end, just to level up, I use analog...I'm sure we've all had our lazy gaming moments before.... Right? In any case...now I'm tempted to buy it for the PSN, so I have it to play, and then just retire and shelf my actual discs. Yes, I'm THAT obsessed....
Cteno Posts: 1112/3416	You might be able to change the control scheme around in the settings. I'll have to check that out. Personally though, I prefer the directional pad.
Xeoman Posts: 8330/11757	I wonder if it enables the analog for first gen PSX games? I know FFVII can't use it... been thinking of buying FFVII through that since I think my discs are pretty beat up, lol.
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